Curse

Great Gjl · Jul 16, 2005, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Since when did people take Domination to do damage?

Red Locust · Jul 16, 2005, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Earth is also a great substitution for fire if you're bored of firestorm fireball meteor. Earthquake, aftershock, crystal wave, while you have armor of earth and ward against melee active, makes for a very decent tank and damage dealer at the same time.

TheGreatBoo · Jul 17, 2005, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

Stick with fire its the BEST for pve. No contest. Don't know or care about pvp. Wow so you can do 106 damage to ONE traget I can do that to SEVERAL AT ONCE.

It's pretty obvious that you've never experimented with air. I too can do 106 or more(gotta love armor penetration) to 3 targets. And yes, you can do it to more then 3, but I doubt anyones dumb enough to have 3+ people standing that close. And no, fire is not the stand-alone best for pve. In the aoe damage department, yes. I would have to say that earth or water is the best for pve, due to their large variety of skills.

Nasenbluten · Jul 17, 2005, 02:19 AM // 02:19

my ele's fire and he'll stay fire, fire is good damage!, i love it for farming,in pvp it's good (if you know how to use it)yes you can run outta my meteor storm but try it when i got an air spell up, ill knock you down so i can get you caught in it, and try being a warrior when i got all my pbaoe spells up and attacking me, with some nice cast times on high damage spells, and maxed out energy and fire im a damage machine, pve and pvp, if you doubt me see me in pvp and we'll talk beacuse i can play my fire class.

Burning Hemrroid 20 E/Mo

Mariena Feladon · Jul 17, 2005, 02:22 AM // 02:22

If the mobs in PvE were actually smart enough to move out of the meteor/fire storm for once, the pyromancers wouldn't be *that* effective.

Right now, the basic formula is : Warrior tanking the mob, monk healing the tank, pyromancer casting fire storm / meteor storm / whatever aeo spell on mob.

Shifty Geezer · Jul 17, 2005, 11:10 AM // 11:10

So it seems I was right in my first assessment that Fire is really there for a good while at least because the useful other elemental spells don't turn up til later. I've considered using something like the Earth Wards to reduce damage, but at long recovery times I can only cast it on myself and not allies, and without combat spells in the Earth category (least not at this point in the game) putting spells into some Earth or Air for defence only contributes to one or two spells, whereas I carry 5 fire spells all at maximal damage.

Currently I've got Healing breeze and Shielding Hands from my Monk secondary which are quick to cast and low cost energy wise. I can provide healing/protection for whichever party member is in the thick of things. We tend to work with the warrior/necro rushing in with protection, getting the enemies' attention, and while they're huddled, and I blitz them with FireStorm, Fireball, and Eruption. From the sounds of it this isn't going to change any time soon as it's too effective. Taking defensive spells that only work on one player due to cast times will see the party's strength greatly diminished overall.

Shame. At first the elementalists were for once a very powerful magic user, able to go toe-to-toe with warrior classes in usefulness. Unfortunately they seema rather static calls, at least for the first half, without much variety.

Interestingly I just started a Warrior character and I'm seeing how so far (just got 3 more skills from Barradin) swords remain the weapon of choive for combat. Nothing so far matches Bleeding for damage/cost ratio. My Ranger friend has also commented on a lack of Skills to replace the first ones. I think the game could have done with more variety from the off, giving more balance to types of skills/spells.

TheGreatBoo · Jul 17, 2005, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nasenbluten

Burning Hemrroid 20 E/Mo

I'm not sure, but I think I played against you in the competition arena. I don't remember how the battle went, but I'm pretty sure that my team was against yours. Yeah, another tidbit of useless info haha.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

Currently I've got Healing breeze and Shielding Hands from my Monk secondary which are quick to cast and low cost energy wise. I can provide healing/protection for whichever party member is in the thick of things. We tend to work with the warrior/necro rushing in with protection, getting the enemies' attention, and while they're huddled, and I blitz them with FireStorm, Fireball, and Eruption. From the sounds of it this isn't going to change any time soon as it's too effective. Taking defensive spells that only work on one player due to cast times will see the party's strength greatly diminished overall.

Yep. In the later parts of the game though, earth destroys. Wards are invaluable in some tough areas like fissure and underworld. But yeah, the good stuff tends to come later.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

My Ranger friend has also commented on a lack of Skills to replace the first ones. I think the game could have done with more variety from the off, giving more balance to types of skills/spells.

Yeah I started a ranger not too far back. Once you get across the mountains theres a changeup in variety.

EmperorTippy · Jul 17, 2005, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

'Knock down an enemy" stops casters from casting....'blind them for 2 seconds' can pull your monk out of a jam if he's being attacked.

the sooner you realize that you are a support character and not a damage dealer/tank you'll start to recognize the use of the other skills.

sorry if this is repeated but Warriors arn't the main damage dealers. Elemtalists are. The support characters are mostly Monks, Mesmers, Necros, and Warriors to an extent.

Monks are obvious they either heal, stop damage through protect, or deal some damage through smiting (but not as much as others usally).

Mesmers are again obviously a support character (very special builds excluded). They stop casters from casting, cause damage to the enemy when it attacks, slow the enemy, and do damage over time.

Necros are also support (with some builds they can be main damage dealers but not with most builds). They can summon help, recharge your casters energy (BiP and WoP are some examples), cause damage over time, and weaken enemies (hexes and the like).

Warriors are support for theses reasons: They can't compare to the damage that an Elemental can do (excluding very special builds again), they can't inflict conditions like a ranger can or attack from a distance, they can tank though. A warriors primary job in PvE is to get all the baddies grouped around him so that the ELEMENTALIST can use AOE skills effectivly.

Rangers can be both support or a primary character with mostly a few skill changes. With the trapping line they can deal damage before the battel starts pretty well. They can attack at a distance. They can use their pet as a meatshield to group baddies for AOE death.

So in conclusion YOU ARE WRONG. Elementalists are the primary damage dealers in the game.

Fire is the best PvE element for damage. If you go for wards then its water. If you want to tank (not reccomended) go earth. Air is good in PvP (quick cast time, armor penetration, enemy doest stand in firestorms and the like) but not so good in PvE (many skills cause exhaustion, 1 enemy attacked at a time usaly, other players can interupt, armor penetration isn't as needed, enemy will stand in stuff like firestorm).

TheGreatBoo · Jul 17, 2005, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorTippy

So in conclusion YOU ARE WRONG. Elementalists are the primary damage dealers in the game. .

Who's wrong?

Aria · Jul 17, 2005, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Elementalists are spike damage. Warriors are sustained damage. There's a reason that some people call eles the "glass cannon." They're both damagers, but different types.

And who said warriors can't inflict conditions..?

But back to the original topic -- I rather like fire in PvE, especially because of meteor shower and the wider selection of AOEs. It loses much of its appeal in PvP, though.. and one of the primary reasons is that semi-intelligent people won't sit in that fire storm or meteor storm and wait to die.

Note, however, that I said "semi-intelligent."

WiseElben · Jul 17, 2005, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Do what my bro did. Switch to "Hidden Monk". He is a full support healer E/Mo, and this combination works very well in PvE and PvP. In PvE, battles are more about endurance than how much you can heal per second. In PvP, Eles are usually the third target (Monk, Mesmer, then Eles), making them a very good "Hidden Monk".

The Sensei · Jul 18, 2005, 12:53 AM // 00:53

I am going to start two new charas a Necro/Mes (he'll be fun), but my other is going to be a Ele/Monk. I am going to be one bad mofo that works on Air Spiking and Earth to protect myself. If I can do a straight up +100 to my armor I can have a higher armor class than warriors. Then when I Lightning Surge/Lightning Orb/Chain Lightning you, you will fall to the ground and I will move to the next team member and repeat my simple, but effective, process. This whole deal here cost me 35 energy to kill 1 person. This is how you spike. Now imagine if you have 2 Spikers doing thte same thing you can drop someone in 4 seconds, 3 for Surge to go off then 1 extra sec. for the other spell that you choose.

The
Sensei

TheGreatBoo · Jul 18, 2005, 03:02 AM // 03:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Sensei

If I can do a straight up +100 to my armor I can have a higher armor class than warriors

You're going to have to put alot of points into earth magic to get that kind of buff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Sensei

Then when I Lightning Surge/Lightning Orb/Chain Lightning you, you will fall to the ground and I will move to the next team member and repeat my simple, but effective, process. This whole deal here costs me 35 energy to kill 1 person

If you're going to be putting all these points into earth magic, how are you going to be able to put even more into air magic? Likewise, how are you going to have the mana to do this? If you already put that many attribute points into the 2 different elements, where are the other attributes that are going to fund your nuking going to come from?

Also, I have a 16 in air magic, and even I can't take a person down with that combo. And yes, I am an experienced ele. One thing that you have to understand while being an ele is that you don't have an unlimited mana pool. While air spells tend to be cheap in cost, they're fast to cast, and fast to recharge as well. This means that even though the spells are cheaper then most, you're going to be hitting them out faster, which ultimately means that you're getting about the same amount, if not more, energy cost of the other, more expensive spells.

I also found that lightning surge is rather tiresome in pvp. Sure, being able to group that with lightning orb can dish out 200+ damage in seemingly 1 hit is effective, but its not effective in the long run. You're going to run out of energy, and fast. Especially considering the fact that lightning surge and chain lightning both cause exhaustion.

If you want a real "bad mofo", you should focus on keeping that spike damage up during the fight, instead of just nuking for the first 30 seconds then having to take a breather. A continual assault of lightning is alot more effective than a spastic burst of it.

Adaria · Jul 18, 2005, 03:06 AM // 03:06

I'm ascended and have yet to leave my fire skills, they're just too good to me, PvE here, may switch to air or something else, but for the time being I don't see a good use for the rest at the moment. I have a ten in fire I think, with a rune.

Dreamsmith · Jul 18, 2005, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorTippy

Elementalists are the primary damage dealers in the game.

This is a pretty common myth. Not sure why, except that it's a persistent role-playing stereotype. But in this game, warriors do the most damage, rangers second most, and elementalists come in third. Even before elementalists deplete their mana pool and start having to wait for mana, their long casting times and recharge times prevent them from being able to dish out the kind of damage rangers can dish out, much less come close to warriors in terms of damage output. They dish out their damage in bigger spikes, but they certainly don't come close to dishing out as much of it overall.

EmperorTippy · Jul 18, 2005, 05:15 AM // 05:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamsmith

This is a pretty common myth. Not sure why, except that it's a persistent role-playing stereotype. But in this game, warriors do the most damage, rangers second most, and elementalists come in third. Even before elementalists deplete their mana pool and start having to wait for mana, their long casting times and recharge times prevent them from being able to dish out the kind of damage rangers can dish out, much less come close to warriors in terms of damage output. They dish out their damage in bigger spikes, but they certainly don't come close to dishing out as much of it overall.

I should refraise my post.

Warriors do the most damage but are the easiest character class prevented from dealing damage along with giving the monk the least trouble to heal.

Rangers are harder to stop but the AI rangers are so very bad (IMO and experiance) that they arn't a problem and there are a surprisingly high percentage of badly played rangers in PvP.

Elemtalists are very hard to stop except with a mesmer. I know that the people who play the other classes well can also stop a Elementalist but is much harder than a mesmer. As a elementalist rarly attacks with their weapon they don't have to worry about most warrior or ranger disableing skills. As for damage in a period of time with fire magic or air magic I can deal about 250 damage in 5 seconds, and I can repeat this whole thing 2 seconds later with a knockdown as the last attack in the sequence. I personally have yet to see a warrior or ranger who can cause 500 damage in under 10 seconds reguarly. (Not to mention with my monk half I can disable them).

This is all from my experiance playing through the game with a primary in all 6 classes and all skills unlocked on 1 account (with the exception of Lighting Surge).

Phades · Jul 18, 2005, 05:22 AM // 05:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aria

But back to the original topic -- I rather like fire in PvE, especially because of meteor shower and the wider selection of AOEs. It loses much of its appeal in PvP, though.. and one of the primary reasons is that semi-intelligent people won't sit in that fire storm or meteor storm and wait to die.

Note, however, that I said "semi-intelligent."

Well you have that, in addition to body blocking and people who like to sit inside wards or are generally immobile via earth armor types or snares.

Typically though, it falls to people who must be in a fixed position to fight aka warriors that take the shaft from these spells, much like they do from wards, smites, and other goodness...

Eclair · Jul 18, 2005, 06:23 AM // 06:23

I stopped using fire at around the crystal desert and switched to Earth. At the shiverpeaks I picked up Illusionary Weaponry and whacked a bit. FInally when I got to the Ring of Fire Islands, I picked up water along with earth and went support/disruption with 3 wards and maestrom.

Later on, I found that keeping my party alive and letting the warriors/rangers do their sustained damage was much more effecient than blasting a spell only to have its effectiveness cut back by AL, regen, heals, and recharge times =P

Beoulve · Jul 18, 2005, 06:24 AM // 06:24

I stopped using fire in, Believe it or not, Lions Arch.

Kishin · Jul 18, 2005, 06:45 AM // 06:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorTippy

.

Elemtalists are very hard to stop except with a mesmer. I know that the people who play the other classes well can also stop a Elementalist but is much harder than a mesmer. As a elementalist rarly attacks with their weapon they don't have to worry about most warrior or ranger disableing skills. As for damage in a period of time with fire magic or air magic I can deal about 250 damage in 5 seconds, and I can repeat this whole thing 2 seconds later with a knockdown as the last attack in the sequence. I personally have yet to see a warrior or ranger who can cause 500 damage in under 10 seconds reguarly. (Not to mention with my monk half I can disable them).

This is all from my experiance playing through the game with a primary in all 6 classes and all skills unlocked on 1 account (with the exception of Lighting Surge).

An interrupt Ranger is a born and bred Elementalist killer. None of the Ranger interrupts are tied to interrupting weapon use, so I don't know what you're talking about there. Distracting Shot and Savage Shot stop spells just as well as other skills (the second even does more damage because of it) and Incendiary Arrows and Choking Gas let you land multiple interrupts one after another (I think my record stands at about 7 with just Choking Gas) for total lockdown. 90% of Elementalist skills beg to be interrupted with their casting times, and Incendiary Arrows and Choking Gas, you can even nail the fast ones like Wards. Furthermore, Rangers are highly resistant to any retaliation by said Elementalist due to their armor.

500 damage is only 50 DPS. A warrior can do that. But that's a digression. Yes, Elementalist are the kings of damage, no one argues that. They are, however, slow to bring their power to bear and a good Ranger can ruin that as fast if not faster than a Mesmer.